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BIBLE Requires

Death Penalty

for Homosexuals

This is a Christian answer to this question:

The Old Testament theocratic law required the death penalty for incest in Israel (Lev. 18:7-17, 29; 20:11-12). In the fullness of time (Gal. 4:4), the Messiah came and brought forth His catholic or universal church from its Jewish swaddling bands, necessitating a change in the law (Heb. 7:12). The apostles and prophets, whom God used to write the New Testament, set forth the will of Jesus Christ for His catholic church (Eph. 2:20; 3:5; 4:11).

When a man committed incest in the church of Corinth (I Cor. 5:1), Paul did not require the death penalty for him. Instead, the apostle required excommunication from the church and kingdom of God, unless the man repented (I Cor. 5:4-7). Both terrible divine judgements—execution in the Old Testament theocracy and excommunication in the New Testament church—preserve the holiness of God’s church, a reflection of the holiness of God Himself.

Leviticus 20:13 (“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”) required the death penalty for homosexuality in Israel. (See also Leviticus 18:22, 29). Similar to the example of incest, the New Testament does not require the death penalty for homosexuals. There were converted homosexuals in the church of Corinth (I Cor. 6:9-11)! The execution of homosexuals in Israel (the Old Testament church) is equivalent to excommunication from the New Testament church. Thus it is a contradiction in terms to speak of gay church members or gay church office bearers or gay Christians. Any churches, therefore, that receive or tolerate impenitent homosexuals as members are therefore false churches in rebellion to the will of Christ.

My reply is that the change in the Law referred to in Hebrews 7:12 does not imply that the moral rules of the Old Testament, such as the duty of the God fearing state to destroy gay people are wrong or changed or obsolete. 

  

When Judaism was only a temporary religion that was meant to evolve into Christianity its fulfilment it doesn’t necessarily imply the law had to be changed except in the sense that it was made tougher or more explicit.  It is worse to sin when you have experienced the fulfilled faith than the preparatory one.

  

The Bible time and time again says that the Old Testament is full of moral example.  As for the incest case the Christians did try to execute the guilty man but by cursing him and urging God to destroy him in the hope that the suffering this entails might make him turn to God again.  And the law to execute does not require one to execute where it is impossible.  The rulers of Corinth would have destroyed the Church if it went and killed the man.  If you can get away with executing you can do it.  That is the New Testament doctrine for not once does it hint that the execution laws are done away.  Perhaps more importantly, the Old Testament never says that gay people are to be destroyed for any other reason than that they are evil.  In other words, its just right.  The Law of Moses didn’t make it right to kill these people.  It said it only RECOGNISED that it was right.  God told the people that the Law was in their mind and heart and whole being and how could it be if it didn’t make sense or didn’t claim to be rational?

 

However, the Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis argues that handing the man over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh does mean execution.  The Christians saw secular and pagan states as the emissaries of Satan though God still used them to punish the wicked (Romans 13).  Handing over to Satan may mean handing him over to the civil authorities and the destruction may be civil punishment, capital punishment.  The fact that Paul sounds so certain the man will be destroyed indicates that he did mean execution.  He wants the man put to death so that he may repent before he dies. 

 

http://www.catholicintl.com/qa/2004/qa-aug-04.htm#Question%2026 

Note: The Same Source says that the Church has the right to use torture to destroy heresy. Question 41.

 

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CONCLUSION

 

The Law of Moses with its superstitions and cruelties is still in force according to the Bible.  Jesus could not and did not teach that the days which we have to obey it are gone.  The Law is said to be no longer obligatory for us in the sense that we want to obey it so it is no longer like a Law and in the sense that if we fail Jesus has obeyed the Law for us in our place so we are still counted as obeying the Law perfectly.  The fact that we need Jesus to do some of the work for us indicates that the Law has his sanction as being fair and correct.

    The Law of Moses is not for the Hebrews alone but for the world.

    The Bible is an evil book that deserves to have its pages torn out and used to shine windows.  Any other use is criminal.  Stop calling it the good book.  It should be banned for it opposes social order and commands religious murder.

 

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WORKS CONSULTED

 

Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible, John W Haley, Whitaker House, Pennsylvania, undated

Christ and Violence, Ronald J Sider, Herald Press, Scottdale, Ontario, 1979

Christ’s Literal Reign on Earth From David’s Throne at Jerusalem, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, undated

Early Christian Writings, Editor Maxwell Staniforth, Penguin, London, 1988

Essentials, David L Edwards and John Stott, Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1990 

Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven, Uta Ranke-Heinmann, Penguin Books, London, 1991

God’s Festivals and Holy Days, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1992

Hard Sayings Derek Kidner InterVarsity Press, London, 1972

Jesus the Only Saviour, Tony and Patricia Higton, Monarch, Tunbridge Wells, Kent, 1993 

Kennedy’s Murder, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, 1964

Martin Luther, Richard Marius, Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, Cambridge Massachusetts, 1999

Moral Philosophy, Joseph Rickaby SJ, Stonyhurst Philosophy Series, Longmans, Green and Co, London, 1912

Not Under Law, Brian Edwards, Day One Publications, Bromley, Ken, 1994

Radio Replies Vol 2, Frs Rumble and Carty, Radio Replies Press, St Paul, Minnesota, 1940

Sabbath Keeping, Johnie Edwards, Guardian of Truth Publications, Kentucky 

Secrets of Romanism, Joseph Zacchello, Loizeaux Brothers, New Jersey, 1984 

Set My Exiles Free, John Power, Logos Books, MH Gill & Son Ltd, Dublin, 1967

Storehouse Tithing, Does the Bible Teach it? John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, 1954

Sunday or Sabbath?  John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, 1943 

The Christian and War, JB Norris, The Christadelphian, Birmingham, 1985 

The Christian and War, Robert Moyer, Sword of the Lord Murfreesboro Tennessee 1946 

The Encyclopaedia of Bible Difficulties, Gleason W Archer, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982 

The Enigma of Evil, John Wenham, Eagle, Guildford, Surrey, 1994 

The Gospel and Strife, A. D. Norris, The Christadelphian, Birmingham, 1987 

The Jesus Event, Martine Tripole SJ, Alba House, New York, 1980 

The Kingdom of God on Earth, Stanley Owen, Christadelphian Publishing Office, Birmingham

The Metaphor of God Incarnate, John Hick, SCM Press, London, 1993 

The Plain Truth about Easter, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1957

The Sabbath, Peter Watkins, Christadelphian Bible Mission, Birmingham 

The Ten Commandments, Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1972 

The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Brooklyn, New York, 1968 

The World Ahead, November December 1998, Vol 6, Issue 6 

Theodore Parker’s Discourses, Theodore Parker, Longmans, Green, Reader & Dyer, London, 1876 

Those Incredible Christians, Hugh Schonfield, Hutchinson, London, 1968

Vicars of Christ, Peter de Rosa, Corgi Books, London, 1995 

War and Pacifism, Margaret Cooling, Scripture Union, London, 1988

War and the Gospel, Jean Lasserre, Herald Press, Ontario, 1962 

When Critics Ask, Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, Victor Books, Wheaton, Illinois, 1992

Which Day is the Christian Sabbath? Herbert W Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God, California, 1976 

 

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THE WEB

 

The Law of Moses: Is It Valid Today?   

www.ark_of_salvation.orgJewish_law.htm

 

The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ by Arnold Fruchtenbaum

 www.ariel.org/ff00006c.html

 

Is Old Testament Law for New Testament Christians

www.souldevice.org/writings_law_gospel.html

This Christian site accepts that the New Testament did not run the Law of Moses out of town but accepted it.  It argues that Matthew 5 has Jesus stating that he has no intention of doing away with the Law of Moses and what he does with it is he gives out a stricter interpretation of it.  But strangely it argues then that Jesus did discontinue some parts of the Law.  1 Samuel 15:22,23/Isaiah 1:11-17/Jeremiah 7:21-23/Proverbs 21:3/Matthew 9:13/23:23 are said to make no sense unless the law can be given three distinctions which are Moral, Ceremonial and Civil.  Not once however in these verses does God even hint that the Moral laws and the Civil laws and the Ceremonial laws are to be treated as three units.  What they are is three different kinds of law in one law based on love. The first two cannot be changed because of the link with morality but the latter can if it is only temporary and states that clearly.  You can’t change what love is.  The law plainly commands and practices hatred so God is assuming that we need to hate in order to love properly so that is how a law of love can encourage and foster hatred.

 

Christians, assuming that they are to have any distinctions at all, are to have just Moral and Ceremonial law.  The Christians make the distinctions for they hold that the moral law of God is unchangeable while the civil and ceremonial law of God is changeable.  But when there is no evidence that moral and civil are not the same they can only hope for the abolition of the Ceremonial law.  They simply have to hold that it is right to slay homosexuals and other sinners Moses wanted dead in the name of God. 

 

A case for holding that Paul believed that the law that could not save was a legalistic interpretation of the Law and not the law itself as it actually was is dismissed.  Paul never hinted that he meant only the interpretation of the law was dangerous for salvation not the Law itself.  Paul’s word for the Law backs this dismissal up. 

 

 

Then the site suggests the correctness of the shocking statement of the theologian Geisler that all God’s laws must be in accord with God’s nature but need not be necessitated by that nature and so they can be changed.  In other words, God can forbid you to pay taxes to the temple so that the poor may be given the money and then he could change that law.  But that does not explain how he could command the stoning of certain sinners.  Any law he makes, changeable or unchangeable is designed to bring about the best.  So if the Israelites were better rid of these sinners so were we.  If the temple can do without money it can at other times so the law would have to be reinstated.  There is a sense then in which all his laws are permanent.  They are permanent but if other permanent laws become more important than them they are just put to the background and not done away until they can be put back to the foreground again.  Not one of the laws in the Torah are claimed to be changeable or even look like that kind of law.  They are all different from the one about paying money to charity instead of the temple.  God in the Law said you could murder a burglar who breaks into your house at night with impunity.  Now is that a law that isn’t necessitated by God’s nature?  It does no good at all.  It clearly indicates that God does not accept the view that he has any laws that his nature does not require him to make but which he makes anyway.  It is unnecessary and it is against the nature of a good God.  Geisler is wrong.

 

The Law claims to be right.  In other words, we are meant to see that it is right even if we don’t believe in God.  God told the Hebrews that other nations would consider them to be the wisest nation on earth because of their Law (Deuteronomy 4:6,8).

 

At least Geisler would admit that stoning people to death is not necessarily incompatible with God.  He would say that if God doesn’t allow it now, he still wants us to have the mindset that we would do it if he asked.  We want to do it but it is because he asks us not to that we don’t.  The fanaticism is still there.

 

 

Is Old Testament Law for New Testament Christians

www.souldevice.org/writings_law_gospel.html

 

 

 

BIBLE QUOTATIONS FROM: 

The Amplified Bible 

 

13/06/2008

 

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